It's respectable to admit you don't know anything about a topic but that you want to learn more about it.
In this episode, we talk about the value that can be drawn from engaging in conversations where you know very little about the topic of discussion. Although it may feel slightly uncomfortable, there's definitely a knack to it. There are always times where we don't want to sound silly, but if you can break through the initial awkward feeling, then speaking to someone about a topic where you know nothing can open your eyes to new perspectives on the world. It often even opens up avenues for new friendships and experiences.
We should all try to do it more!
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What is Getting It?: In a Nutshell
A conversation where we explore topics both familiar and unfamiliar to us to find out what makes them interesting, so that we can expand our horizons and further our understanding of the world and people around us.
From science to lifestyle design, languages to religion, plus everything in between - anything can be interesting if exposed to you through the right lens. We hope to spark your curiosity through open-minded and thoughtful discussion, as well as a healthy dose of overthinking.
Subaan is currently a 5th year medical student, motion designer, and an avid rabbit hole explorer. At the moment, he’s taking a break from his studies to explore avenues outside of Medicine, mostly software engineering and tech. He has keen interests in lifestyle design, technology, investing, and metabolic health. Follow him on Instagram and Twitter.
Dan is a final year medical student, pianist, and random fact connoisseur. He spends most of his time learning about languages, playing sports, music, and geopolitics. Follow him on Instagram and Twitter.
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Note: This transcript was generated using Otter.ai. Therefore the transcript will not be 100% accurate in some parts.
Subaan Qasim 00:06
Daniel Redfearn 00:07
Hello Subaan how are you today?
Subaan Qasim 00:09
Not too bad. How you doing?
Daniel Redfearn 00:10
I'm good. Okay, good. Thank you very much. Let's speak to you. So the idea in this episode is I want to talk to you about when we have conversations with people where the topic of conversation is about something, your cup that's completely foreign to something you know nothing about.
Subaan Qasim 00:27
Yeah. Okay. I'm used to that.
Daniel Redfearn 00:30
And me too, and how to go through those conversations, right. So like, the way to approach them? Because I think, for a lot of people, they can be quite uncomfortable conversations or often hear. Oh, okay, so this is something weird that I like doing. If If I'm in a group conversation, and one of the people in that conversation is a very good friend of mine. And but I don't know the rest of the people very well. Okay. Then afterwards, I'll ask my friend, Mike. What did you think of that conversation? Like, how do you think that went? Sometimes Sometimes, if I don't know the group very well. And I know my friend very well, I say like, how do you think I came across? Like, you know, how do I do? And then that door, either they thought you were normal? I was like, a good
Subaan Qasim 01:09
Daniel Redfearn 01:10
Yeah, at least that's what I think. Um, but sometimes, if I speak to them, whatever person about the conversation, then I've heard it said that they didn't really have anything to add. So they did, you know, it's quite a common thing was that I didn't really have anything to contribute. So it was fine. But you know, it kind of just went past me. And then made me think about how there's a there's kind of a way to engage in conversations where you don't know anything without either a becoming a burden to the conversation, you know, sort of facilitating the ideas or not knowing anything about it, because normally you'd expect that to have a fruitful conversation, both people really need to know what's going on. And they're just building on each other and contributing and arguing and whatever, to have, like a valuable conversation. So yeah, I'm trying to sort of think about how, how to approach those conversations where I don't know anything, do you find that when you're in those situations, you do anything in particular? or?
Subaan Qasim 02:08
Yeah, but what level? Do you think you have no knowledge of that topic? Because I guess it depends where you put that threshold is to. Okay, I think I'm fairly well versed in x topic, but not so much in y topic, I guess that's the starting point as to where you'd consider because some topics I, I basically know nothing about. But I think I know the basics and the fundamentals. So I think I'd be able to hold on with most conversations and follow along with new kinds of editions of information. But there are some where I actually have zero clue. So I literally cannot see a thing, or I just have no idea what's going on. So I mean, do you mean in that latter kind of scenario, or the
Daniel Redfearn 02:50
first I'm talking about how in almost every conversation you have about a topic that I know that's incredibly vague, but you know, there's going to be one person in the dynamic who knows more than the other one, right? So for example, before we were talking about statistics, I know you're by no means a statistics professor. Yeah. But at this point, you know more about stats than I do,
Subaan Qasim 03:11
Daniel Redfearn 03:12
maybe. So, in that conversation, neither of us are experts. But there is a slight disparity in the knowledge level slightly. And in most conversations, there's there's a slight disparity, right? Like before, when I was asking you about the country's ranking, that might be something where I know a bit more than you. And again, how can you contribute in that conversation to add into it for it to be interesting and good for me as well. So I'm not really saying it's one or the other? I'm not saying that, you know, we're talking about something where you don't know anything, or talking about something where Yeah, you're actually pretty good. I'm saying in general, you're talking to someone about a topic, basically. Okay. The first thing I want to say, if you don't mind me starting to share my opinions on is not being afraid to admit you don't know anything. I think the worst thing to do, from my experience, is act like you're keeping up, if that makes sense. Like, I think someone who knows a lot about a topic, they know a lot about that topic, they can tell from the questions you're asking from the statements you make, whether you're just showing them that you know, something, or whether you're contributing with that statement, because a lot of the time, you will notice in a conversation that someone's adding something because they're just trying to show what they know, as opposed to actually contributing to the point of the conversation. Because the conversation is a weird thing. What are you doing in doing that?
Subaan Qasim 04:30
Are you It's like an exchange of information.
Daniel Redfearn 04:33
It's like a group project in a way, isn't it? Like you're working together to kind of reach an end goal, as in some ways or and that end goal might be the exchange of ideas, or slightly changing your opinion on something and you're slightly changed my opinion on it, whatever. You know, we have hundreds of conversations all the time. But yeah, did you see where I'm coming from in that respect?
Subaan Qasim 04:58
Yeah, I guess one of the first things I would do in that kind of scenario, say if there is someone that is more knowledgeable about something, is the way I contribute is by asking questions, because I guess they would kind of get value out of it or maybe get a kick out of the conversation where, you know, they're teaching someone, they're helping someone, ie me in that scenario, right? So they're getting value in that way. And the thing is, is that when you have to explain something, you're essentially teaching so you're solidifying your understanding or identifying your gaps in your knowledge at that point, whereas the person who's asking the question, ie me in that case, I'm also gaining a lot in the fact that I'm learning or filling in certain gaps about that particular thing. So I think that's where usually lies, but then to be able to kind of ask the questions where you said, You know, sometimes you can just kind of tell if they're just trying to show that they know something, or I think, sorry, I think the point where you said that you you're you easily admit that you don't know a lot about something or don't know anything about something is really important, because massively, then, because say, if there is someone knowledgeable, and you are trying to pretend to be knowledgeable, they can tell so easily. And it's really cringe. When I say if I'm talking about something that I'm pretty well versed in, and I know someone else, or someone else is trying to come across, like they're well versed in it, you can just tell so easily, you can tell right, yeah, and it doesn't come across well, or nicely, it's just, it doesn't feel good to the person who doesn't know something
Daniel Redfearn 06:29
is a difficult thing to do at first, and I still find it hard in certain topics. So for example, when I'm at uni, for example, I'm talking with a colleague, and they know a lot more about a certain condition than me, I might feel a bit embarrassed to not know as much as them. So I'm not saying that I'm perfect, I do that still, sometimes I won't let on how little I know about a topic just because I'm too ashamed. So it happens all the time. You know, like, I'm, I'm definitely a corporate with that, too. But something I want to clarify, or something I want to really underline is that it is a great opportunity to have a conversation with someone where they're very knowledgeable about that topic. And you know, a lot, what a, what a brilliant opportunity, because you, you know, I don't need to explain that you have an opportunity to learn, and especially when someone's knowledgeable on something, often it's because they enjoy that topic, they're passionate about it, especially if it's something outside of their studies, you know, normally you're going to engage in that interest because you like it. So more often than not, they will want to be talking about that thing. If you're interested in it, and you're asking them questions, they often appreciate that, they want to talk about it. And I love learning about it, because I don't know,
Subaan Qasim 07:33
it's just the exchange of information, start to weigh value, where they're getting the value out of teaching it and telling you about it. And you're the other person is getting value by, you know, actually gaining information. That's as long as you are interested in it. And you weren't just asking you a question out of courtesy, which I have, you know, kind of put myself in that scenario where out of courtesy, I just like asking questions just to meet, even if I'm really not interested, I don't want them, you know that I'm just not interested because you know, it can hurt them, especially if they're really passionate about it. So I'll just ask you a question. That's, you know, that's kind of insightful, but like trying to sort out a bit more. But I, because I don't really know much about that topic, or I'm just not interested in it. I didn't know how deep or profound that question was. And it just goes on to a mass thing. And even at the end of I'm still not that interested, but you're just kind of stuck down. You just kind of have to sit there and let them finish or
Daniel Redfearn 08:23
I think two things with it is one. I hope that doesn't happen to me. I really I wonder how many times we're talking about
Subaan Qasim 08:30
it's been for 100 minutes straight about languages, two episodes.
Daniel Redfearn 08:34
You ask questions on trains, by the end, but like, um, yeah, that's the first thing I hope people don't do that. To me, they probably the thing is, I
Subaan Qasim 08:44
think that happens to me a lot where because I sometimes have some pretty controversial opinions about especially when it comes to certain nutritional aspects or, you know, intervention for like lifestyle intervention for medicine and just health in general. And the way certain body mechanisms work, people were just kind of asked me a question out of probably curiosity, say, you know, the relationship about salt and hypertension. They don't know what they're in for. When they asked me that question. They think I'm just like, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's all. So you know, the lectures is all like the recording lecture system employs Panopto. So they're like, oh, man, here comes a Panopto session. So
Daniel Redfearn 09:24
yeah, I feel like
Subaan Qasim 09:26
that actually happened. Where? me my friend, we're working on something. And you know, this was at the time we're like, in second year when my house was kind of collapsing. So we just kind of stressed and we were trying to catch up on work and we were just out on the surface just trying to sort out some admin stuff related to the house, I think. And someone came and someone came up to me and just asked me, or Subaan I heard there's this weird thing about you know, your diet and stuff. Just awesome side offs in bucks more the science aspect about it. And also okay, y'all just answer these questions my friend next to me who just like, Oh man, I know where this is going. I'm going to log on just so he
Daniel Redfearn 10:01
knows, you know, I
Subaan Qasim 10:02
was just about to talk for about three hours straight. And we literally just had a conversation for three hours about that particular concept. So
Daniel Redfearn 10:08
you do that you do you definitely do that you do a lot more than most people I know, almost more than anyone. But that's a very, sort of
Subaan Qasim 10:16
the thing is, is that I find it hard to judge it. Because I was trying to figure out, do they actually want to sit here and listen to me talk about it for three hours? In that case, I sussed out that she was probably pretty interested in it, and was genuinely asking because because she kept asking more questions, more questions, more questions, and getting deeper and deeper. So I was like, okay, it's all right. But I have easily cropped where I can tell that the neighboring You know, they're just kind of getting distracted, or they basically don't want to be listening, but they don't want to tell me to shut up. I could just see their eyes darting or they're not really paying attention. When I say something profound. They just say, yeah, whereas usually there will be questions and be like, yeah, crap, I have a mind blown moment.
Daniel Redfearn 10:57
This is that's from so now we're looking at it from the other side, we're looking at it from the side of the person with the knowledge, I guess, but I'm talking more about the person who doesn't have the knowledge. So I'm talking about that friend who was talking with you. And her, you know, there could be a million reasons why she wasn't too interested in that conversation. But I'm saying a lot of the times, that's a good opportunity. And, you know, like she's sitting there with someone who's very passionate and knowledgeable about it. And even if what you're saying is potentially controversial, is it's good to hear those opinions. Right. And that was definitely a learning opportunity. Yeah, I'm not saying she made a mistake. Because Yeah, it could be a million reasons why she didn't want to happen. The thing is,
Subaan Qasim 11:32
she initiated the conversation, she started it. And she was, she started the conversation in the lunacy out, she wasn't just jumped into the conversation. Like she didn't just jump into the conversation randomly. And now she was stuck in like, she wasn't on the teacher side, she didn't have this show. She was there like being like, Oh, my God, I don't really have much knowledge in this area or something. Right? I guess it's more difficult, where you just have some conversation with some friends, you just, you know, a few of you probably like three or more basically. And two of them start, like the other to basically start talking about something that you have no idea about, but you don't just kind of want to get left out. So you try and contribute something, or they're like, oh, would you think Subaan? Or what do you think, Dan? And yeah,
Daniel Redfearn 12:10
that's that's where I think a group dynamic is more difficult. Because I was saying before, the conversations I love is, are when I'm in the conversation with one other person, they have time, I have time, they know a lot about something. I don't know a lot about that topic, and they want to talk about it. And so to why I ended up walking out of that conversation, learning loads, yeah, brilliant, it's a lot more difficult if you're in a group capacity, of course, because you have to either decide, do I want to be do I want to turn the attention on me and basically make this a session where I'm learning, which oftentimes, it's not the best thing to do self centered, or just let the conversation go over my head, I guess that's the normal thing to do would be just to let it go over your head, you know, and accept that this is something you don't know enough about to really gain a lot from. So I'm not so much talking about that either. So I'm not talking about being the person that sort of knowledge. And I'm not talking about group conversations, and talking about one on one conversations, and I'm saying, how can you make the most out of those opportunities. So the first thing, a lot of my friends have reflected on it. A lot of my friends are actually very different from me. So they're not many friends, where I have a lot in common with them. There's maybe an odd statement. But so for example, with you and me, some of my biggest interests, you don't actually share those interests. And some of your biggest interest, I don't actually share those interests with Yeah, so why are we friends?
Subaan Qasim 13:26
But as I said, very good point. Yeah, it just all kind of came from that meme we had between us as we sat next to each other. And the thing is, is that from that point, we weren't friends for around six years renal and we knew of each other, we just kind of joke to each other. But we didn't start sitting down just chilling as friends. Until sick form.
Daniel Redfearn 13:50
Yeah, that's when we became friends. Yeah, but
Subaan Qasim 13:52
what was we just sat next to each other in a class and that was it. But even from then, I still remember you just talk about and just mess it will not mess around. But like, you just carry on going on about certain points. I'll just be sat there trying to do my work.
Daniel Redfearn 14:06
Yeah, that was for a long time. A long time, especially during GCSEs. Yeah,
Subaan Qasim 14:11
yeah. But yeah, I'm not entirely sure what our kind
Daniel Redfearn 14:15
of, because we're still friends now. You know, I mean, like, um,
Subaan Qasim 14:18
so there was something there
Daniel Redfearn 14:20
that there's a reason why we both enjoy the friendship. And it's probably because what is actually our approach to learning, honestly. And the fact that when we sit down, it's either you're sort of teaching me or me teaching you and every time I sit down with you, I learned something new. Right? Yeah, it's a brilliant thing. For me, I learn a lot from you. And also, there's an element of respect where if your friends or someone is quite different from you, oftentimes they'll live their life in a slightly different way to you, you have to both be able to compromise and not judge them. You know, be open minded, all of that jazz, but I'm, again, more steering this towards the idea of talking to people about things where they're an expert or they're more knowledgeable than you And having being willing to engage in those conversations because they're more mentally taxing in a way, you know, it's not just a little like sit down, have small talk gossip, what's going on? Each time we sit down, normally we'll be talking about. So for example, before we started recording this, we're talking for a couple of hours about a book you've recently been reading. Yeah, that's one way again, you know a bit about it. You're obviously it's a topic where it's hard to become an expert, but you've learned from it. Yeah, I'm behind you. I don't know much about stats personally. At least not in the capacity that you learned about it. So yeah, I from that conversation, I learned quite a bit. It was good. Now, so did I. Yeah, because you're reinforcing it. So that's the other person's perspective. Yeah,
Subaan Qasim 15:42
I keep talking about it from the perspective of the person who's a relative expert in that field? Because I don't know I find myself in that situation a lot. Because, you know, relative relative, is there a very strong light, yeah, emphasize word. But in the fact that, you know, I'm always reading about random stuff that, you know, I basically know nothing about. But I know the best way that I'm going to learn and reinforce that knowledge or find those gaps in my knowledge, like I said earlier, is by trying to explain it to someone. So I'll just go to my brother, or my dad or my mom, and just try and explain something, whether it's something about the stats, like I was trying to explain certain aspects of the SATs, as soon as I read that chapter, and all that, okay. My dad came home from work, and I was just trying to explain it to him. And I'll try and think of an example, we need to make one or two statements or or, you know, say one or two of his opinions and stuff. And then the thing is that's reinforcing my own stuff, because I'm trying one I'm trying to explain it. And then to, you know, his questions might pick holes in my knowledge. So yeah, when I was doing that, so we finance and investing Well, when I'm trying to explain see animation or why something is really act like animated Really? Well, I'll try to explain it. And then he will ask a question about, oh, I don't actually know so much, or you know, me, I've just got this gap, right. So the thing is, I try and force those conversations, that's probably why I find myself in it a lot. Because
Daniel Redfearn 17:04
it's because you're To me, it seems like because you're a very genuinely passionate person, the things you enjoy learning about, you're truly passionate about them. When you're passionate about something, often you just want to share that. So often you I will come and sit down with you after a week or two, sometimes after weeks of not seeing you. And you've got stuff you want to say because you've been learning about your more about the things you're passionate about. You want to share that naturally very natural thing. But it's nice for me, right? Because I get to spend time learning about your passions as well. I'm gaining a lot from it. So yeah, I hope you see what I mean in that respect that. friendships with people where you're actually quite different from them are extremely valuable, so valuable. Go out of your comfort zone and spend time with people who are not very similar to you learn more about how they see the world, and you will learn so much from it. So yeah, and I again, I really don't mean to be preaching, I, you know, there are a lot of things that I do wrong in how I go through my conversations, I still fake it till you make it. I do that quite a lot still as well. And of course, I've got friends who I've got a lot in common with. And also last thing on this rant is that, obviously, you should never consciously make friends as well. Obviously, it has to be a natural thing just spent on people you like you can't thank God, I really hate that guy. I've got to spend time with him. Yeah, you know, knowledge. Yeah, he was born in a different country to me, so I can learn about that country. That's not how that's not how it should be done. I'm talking more about being open minded and willing to learn new things. That's what I'm saying here. So do you mind me just move in the conversation a little bit, because you wanted to quickly add that? I'll take that as a way
Subaan Qasim 18:39
it was loading. My brain isn't an SSD. So
I was gonna say you're an HDD. Yeah.
Subaan Qasim 18:50
Yeah. So there was a bit lag. But yeah, so I think it's kind of on that. So yeah, just the first point is, if you find yourself in that position, just straight away admit, at least internally that, okay, I know less than them. I'm not going to try and try and get onto their level of nauseum. Yeah, no one's going to you're trying to sound good, because it would just be really cringe for the other person. And
we're comfortable in that environment. Exactly. Well, yeah.
Subaan Qasim 19:13
It's always slightly uncomfortable because you're essentially being dominated in a way in terms of knowledge, in that sense, but I guess it's just a mental or like a mental framework you kind of have to put yourself into and I guess I would just leave it there. Otherwise, we'll keep repeating the same points, but
Daniel Redfearn 19:27
the people often as well, just building on that quickly. People don't think less of you for admitting that or showing that you don't know a lot about a topic. I think people will be surprised by like, how, how much people okay, as I'm saying, people, it's too vague, but let's let's call it this is maybe a bit cringy. But let's call it the teacher and the learner in a certain dynamic. Often, the learner in the conversation doesn't we can establish often the learner doesn't like admitting that they're the learner. You both want to be equal to each other. Even if it's a topic they know they're not equal on. So the first thing is establishing, as we're saying, internally, okay, I accept that they know more about me than this. And it's probably going to show and I'm going to let them only be vulnerable and let them see that I don't know anything about this topic. That's the first thing. Second thing is that the teacher normally respects that, because it takes a lot to admit that sometimes, yeah. So let's use the example of me at med school not accepting sometimes, or not wanting to admit that I don't know enough about a certain topic with someone who I don't know, I don't want to the thoughts might be I don't want them to think that I'm stupid or that I don't know anything. Yeah. So accepting that, then then noticing them registering, oh, this guy doesn't know as much about me. And what I'm saying here is that they won't mind that they'll go Oh, no, it's cool. Like, let's talk about it. Yeah, if you have the right attitude, often just wanting to learn people respect that a lot. Yeah, much more than if you get exposed for not knowing about it.
Subaan Qasim 20:56
Yeah. And I think one thing that people should try to do is, if you're learning about, say, getting into a new topic, I knew when I was trying to get into financing and investing in stuff, I knew one of my friends was more knowledgeable than me in that topic. And I would purposely go out and try and tease out conversations where he would automatically be put into that teacher's role and always be odd be put into that student role. And just start by asking questions, or I would go and be like, Oh, do you know about this, this and this acting as if I know about it, or talk about scenario where that concept applies. And then he might give his opinions and stuff. And then I realized, Oh, crap, I knew nothing. Because I was trying to find it. There's a weird kind of law of learning where you've definitely sit will most likely seen it. Where when you start learning topics, like you know nothing, and it's like, quite quickly in when you're covered, maybe some of the basics, you're like, oh, okay, I'm an expert, this topic, right? And then, as you start learning more, you're like, Oh, wait, hang on. I know. Yeah. And then it goes down really low below, like where you were before. And then as, as time progresses, and as you learn more, then you finally get to a level where it's okay, actually know it, and you do know it. So I, I tend to usually find myself on that part where it's like, oh, man, I kind of know it. But I definitely do not know it. Where and I always kind of want to consciously get myself out of that as quickly as possible. or whenever I'm in a conversation with someone I was trying to think that I might do, am I right now in my head, at this level where I think I know it all, but I don't know at all. And I think you know, when when I even when I'm say someone comes up to me, and I'm in the teachers role, even then, I'd try and think like, Am I in the amount that point where I think I know it, but I don't. Because how you end up teaching, it might be different. And the way you come across might be different to the student as well.
Daniel Redfearn 22:43
So you know how like, the whole concept of the podcast is like talking about a topic that someone hasn't thought about before and exposing them to a maybe, and getting them on a train of thought, well, oh, hey, like that might actually be really interesting. I want to learn more about it. It's kind of like doing that. But in everyday life with the conversations you have, deliberately exposing yourself to topics that you've never really thought about before. You know, and again, and having variety to your friendships and stuff. You can, I don't know. Constantly expose yourself to a new thing that you've never really thought about much before for example with you. You're one of like, okay, we talk about Islam, sometimes I don't have many friends who are Muslim, not too many. So, or at least I don't have many Muslim friends where I talk about Islam so much with them. So from you, I learned a lot about Islam. Right, is a chance for me to basically put myself in that loners position again, not deliberately, but it just happens where I learn a lot about it. Yeah, basically, I'm just saying that you have to be willing to make variety in those friendships and stuff. Yeah, I'm saying with that. I do. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Anything else you want to add? Really? No, I
Subaan Qasim 23:54
think we'll just keep going on at the same point. So yeah, okay. How
Daniel Redfearn 23:57
many minutes? No, we are 24. Okay. Nice.
Subaan Qasim 24:01
Yeah. Should we just leave it at that?
Daniel Redfearn 24:02
Yeah, I think that's basically it.
Subaan Qasim 24:04
Yeah, decent shower thoughts, then.
Daniel Redfearn 24:06
Yeah. So to conclude, basically, don't be afraid to be in those conversations. Be comfortable in those conversations. Yeah. Don't shy away from them. Oh, wait, no, I'm sorry. There's one or two more things. I want to make it a bit abrupt, wasn't it? Yeah. Okay. So just as the person listening to finish up,
Subaan Qasim 24:27
again, to the end of their commute, it's
Daniel Redfearn 24:29
got two stops there. Okay. So, how to do it? I forgot to talk about that. Okay. Like, there's a bit of an art to it. So we've talked about getting yourself into that position where you're having those conversations, but we haven't talked about what to actually do when you're in that conversation. How to do it. Well, okay, so say we're talking about Islam here. Okay.
Subaan Qasim 24:49
Yes. Well, how
Daniel Redfearn 24:50
do you pronounce Islam?
Subaan Qasim 24:53
Daniel Redfearn 24:53
Islam does not Islam or Islam
Subaan Qasim 24:56
Do you know I'm saying Oh, right in this that slight emphasis on the Islam or Islam?
Daniel Redfearn 25:02
Yeah. accentuation on the first or second syllable
Subaan Qasim 25:08
I just hate Islam. So it's more just, you know, one,
Daniel Redfearn 25:12
Islam. And then also, it could be two A's in Islam.
Subaan Qasim 25:16
I guess if you're gonna transliterated English, you could do it like my name is Subaan with two A's. Yeah. Otherwise you could spell it su B, ar, ar en. Au Bon Subaan. That's probably better representations is slightly different to think if you say, some people could say born like that bond, you can't mix. I don't know. This is just transliteration at this. Yeah.
Daniel Redfearn 25:42
Yeah. Okay. So basically, anyway, when we're talking about Islam, I have to, there's, there are questions I can ask that will help me make the most of that conversation, right? Because often, when you're having these conversations, you're not just going to sit down and say, Hey, oh, this is actually something I don't know anything about, can you teach me for the next 20 minutes? That will come across very weirdly, often, it just happens, right? Where you're just talking for half an hour, they just end up telling you a lot of stuff. And you're learning about asking questions back. So I think the first thing you have to do is not spell it out on paper that you Oh, by the way, I thought about this recently, I want to be comfortable in these conversations, I want to let you know that I don't know anything about this. But I think you do. Can't do that. Okay, that doesn't come across, well, if you but at the same time, if you just let that person know, make it clear that you don't know anything about it, and that you're curious. It kind of gets them into that teacher role. Without them really thinking too much about it, you know, you're not telling them to become the teacher, you're not saying hey, can you teach me? But just saying like, Oh, that's really interesting. I don't actually know much about this, if you don't mind me asking, like, you know, is that is that? Is that a national thing? Or is that a cultural thing? Is that is that? So for example, you might say, oh, you're you're celebrating a certain holiday or an event? I could say, oh, that I've never heard of that event before? Is that? Is that something to do with Pakistan? Is that tying to Islam? Or is that you know, both together, like, you know, do you get what I'm saying?
Subaan Qasim 27:08
Yeah. I guess one way I kind of go about it sometimes is just saying, What do you think of x? Can I just say, like, asking their opinion on something, which, at that point, they're probably not thinking Oh, okay. He's a loner on the on the teacher is neutral. Yeah.
Daniel Redfearn 27:28
Because you could be, what's the word you could be? almost like you're interrogating them? Possibly, though? That's the thing.
Subaan Qasim 27:34
Yeah. But I guess it depends how you frame the question. Like, say, if I'm just like, Oh, I was reading about this. What do you think about this?
Daniel Redfearn 27:40
Right? You're going into that conversation more than equal in that respect? Do you see what I'm saying?
Subaan Qasim 27:46
But that's the way to kind of, like go into it slowly. Because then Okay, they'll say their opinion, right? And then you can just carry on from there carry on asking questions, because it can be a bit awkward, like you said, just to be I've known nothing, no, no clue about this topic. What's x, y, Zed or something. So maybe going in. So if you're just going to start the conversation, or maybe if you did kind of know something, but I think to kind of switch the roles really quickly at the point. So say, for topics on nice thoughts about something that you don't really know about? If it comes to you, just maybe what I would do is just ask a question almost just in return, like ask them to say so safe, they're talking about two different kinds of like, some kind of concept. Just also what Getting It what actually is the difference between these two things or something? Because then they have to sort out and try and actually explain so there's, say that minute kind of difference? I don't know.
Daniel Redfearn 28:41
I think that Do you mind? If we go over half an hour?
Subaan Qasim 28:45
No, no, keep going.
Daniel Redfearn 28:46
Okay, cool. So basically, we're graduating from a shower thoughts Episode Two, full episode. Oh, exciting.
Subaan Qasim 28:53
Should we get the online graduations? Yeah.
Daniel Redfearn 28:57
Okay, so the way let me get my thoughts quickly. Here, my thoughts have been collected. Alright. So it because it's obviously quite a weird thing to think about conversations, you know, you don't normally consciously think your way through a conversation. But I'm trying to talk about here, how you segue into that conversation where you end up learning a lot. I don't want to come across like, you're either in that mode, or you're out of that mode. Do you see what I'm saying? Here?
Subaan Qasim 29:28
Explain that again.
Daniel Redfearn 29:29
Okay. So say you're the learner. Right? Yeah. In a certain situation,
Subaan Qasim 29:33
Daniel Redfearn 29:33
I don't want to come across like, you should enter a conversation. normal conversation was on then you spot that they know something, and then you like, put on your learner hat and then you start becoming the learner. I'm not trying to primary school, you're probably thinking, yeah, I don't want to be the I don't want to put on my learning curve. Yeah. What I'm saying here is it's more attitude to life. Right. And it ties into a lot of episodes we've done before. It's something I don't know if it's arrogant to say, but it's something that I would hope to be defined by it in a way is the Curiosity thing, you know, is you know, when people say being naturally curious, yeah, that's kind of what we're talking about right here,
Subaan Qasim 30:17
the mindset of a child,
Daniel Redfearn 30:18
kind of like the mindset of a childlike just wanting to learn more, and being open to learning more all the time. So it's not like a technique where you know, you're trying to learn more, you just do want to learn more all the time. So when you're having a conversation was when I'm having a conversation with someone, the thing that I often, like, I'm naturally drawn to other things that they know a lot about, for the reasons we alluded to earlier, something that they're often passionate about. So they want to talk about, and also something that I can learn from. So yeah, it's about just your approach to talking to people in general. I don't. Some with some people, I end up talking a lot about my passions, but with most people, especially people who don't know very well, I don't usually talk about the things I'm too passionate about. Because you don't know if there'll be interested, yeah, there's more of a chance that they will want to talk about their passions than mine. Completely. Fair enough. You know, it's the same with me. A lot of the time, I'd more like, you know, prefer to talk about the geography of Brazil, then, then I don't know, talk about their passions or stats. I hate talking about stats, really. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.
Subaan Qasim 31:21
Daniel Redfearn 31:22
Yeah. And basically, is, you shouldn't be alluding to that in your conversation deliberately. It should just happen, basically. And once you got onto that train, so once they're talking about it, I think the first thing is actually learn from what they're saying, and apply it to what you know about it, right?
Subaan Qasim 31:41
Yes, okay. This is a huge thing. Because I think when a lot of people find themselves in that situation where they don't really know too much, they kind of panic and don't want to look dumb or stupid and stuff. So I guess starting off and just prefacing it with, you know, I don't really know much about this game told me about x, y Zed or something, you know, that's a good way to kind of alleviate that pressure. But when it's kind of awkward in that situation, where it feels like they're talking to you in a way where they think that you know something about that topic. I don't know if that made sense. But that can kind of lead you to the point where you're just trying to listen in to kind of corroborate something so that you sound knowledgeable in that area, rather than actively listening so that you can learn and ask a follow up question that will be beneficial for you to learn from. Yes, a lot of people try and ask the question to try and sound smart.
Daniel Redfearn 32:31
Yes. Yes. Yes. In in big, big, big thing completely. Agree. I hope you don't want me no go. We were talking about before volunteering information to show that you know, but another thing that people do a lot, and that I will sometimes do as well, is try and ask questions to show that I know what they're talking about as well. But the How about like him genuinely asking questions instead of like, thinking sometimes I should be telling myself that, you know, I should really be just actually asking the question. So the way I would want to sorry, the way I want to visualize it, I don't go too far from the mic. is you, as you said earlier, as well, you often are not in a conversation where you know, zero. Can we do an example quickly? Okay. Okay. So let's say, all right, so either festival, right? Yep. In Islam? I know a tiny bit about it. I don't know zero about it. I know there are two every year right. Yeah. One is after Ramadan. Yeah. And then one has to do with the calendar.
Subaan Qasim 33:30
One is off the Hajj. Again, that's the
Daniel Redfearn 33:33
pilgrimage pilgrimage. So I know, I know something about it. I don't know zero. Basically, I have my, my knowledge set about it. You're going to talk to me. And when you talk to me about it, you're given me new information, I have to put that into the context of what I already know, instead of just giving me information and not actually applying it to what I know these. Do you hear what I mean? Here? It's a bit of a weird concept.
Subaan Qasim 34:01
Yeah. And the thing is, that's what should guide your next question, because I'm going to give information in the way that I think is probably best to build it in a foundational way, right? Or at least any kind of good teacher would do it in that way. And but the thing is, is that depending on what you know, and the certain gaps in your knowledge, what I say might not be useful for you entirely. Yeah. So listening to what they're saying. You might be able to take out one or two bits of that, oh, okay, that fills in that gap that fills in that and then maybe I start going off onto a different side. Yes, because maybe I've assumed knowledge or maybe kind of skimmed over it. Because depending on how big the differences in knowledge, it can, you know, the teacher in that scenario can sometimes skim over things that might seem very basic to them, but might be new, or are still really foundational for you to learn properly. So that's where you have to ask the question, listen to what they're saying. Listen to what they're telling you. And then take that information, put it into what like in with what you know, and be like, okay, what's the Next step, or what's the confusing point at this point? What's the next step for me to get to that next principle, basically,
Daniel Redfearn 35:05
so in showing you that I'm putting what you're saying into the context of my current knowledge and facilitating your role as a teacher, because I'm showing you what I know, kind of so when you told me just then that there are two times a year were either celebrated, right? And so now I know one is after Ramadan. Yeah. On the on the night Ramadan ends.
Subaan Qasim 35:28
Yes, technically, I mean, you can, it can get pretty nuanced with like, it has to do with the lunar calendar. So it's on the moon sighting. That's why can either be like, you know, it, that's why it's not always set, like 30 days, or 29 days, every month, every single year, depends on the moon sightings at the beginning, and at the end
Daniel Redfearn 35:47
of Ramadan shift back every year.
Subaan Qasim 35:49
Well, yeah. So if there are, you know, because the lunar calendar is around two weeks shorter than the solar calendar. Okay. So he said, there's one after Ramadan, every year and the exact the nuances a variable and when it should be Yeah. And there are differences of opinion as to how it should be celebrated across while because obviously, the moon doesn't show in the same place at the same
Daniel Redfearn 36:12
world. But so there's that and then there's also the one after Hodge Yeah. And that's a six months apart. Exactly.
Subaan Qasim 36:23
I don't know, I they're roughly six. Yeah, they're fairly Yeah, around probably around five and a bit
Daniel Redfearn 36:34
of interrogation. Sort of putting you on the spot. And thank you for being a very happy partner, you know, being willing to go along with it. Happy was not the right word. But, essentially, yeah, it's my job to lay out what I know, that facilitates your and it's that sort of like gets you going as the teacher in the conversation, because I'm kind of, I'm kind of guiding you along. I'm saying, look, this is what I know. You know, help me with it. Kind of Yeah. And it gives me more and more context, right. So repeating it back to them sort of, you don't have to say like, Oh, I don't know anything about EAD, I don't know anything about celebrations in Islam, you can just repeat what you do knows, I don't know a lot about it. But am I right in thinking that, you know, there are two times a year or either celebrate, that kind of gets you going on the train from there. Like with any topic, there's a lot of stuff that you can sort of a lot of tangents you can go on, and just go on the things that you want to know, you know what I mean? Because that stuff is useful for me to know, in the future. There I have, I have people in London who I get along with her Muslim, it's nice for me to engage in that culture a little bit more next time I see them, you know, it comes to the end of Ramadan, I can say what are you doing for this year? Like? I don't know, then you're not sure of what you know. Even Mubarak,
Subaan Qasim 37:53
even the thing is, is that? Yeah, I'm doing those little things where, you know, you're trying to show off a little bit or save some save, some people are talking about something, and you just kind of bought into their comments and be like, yeah, about wherever you're talking about it, save someone. So the thing is, I think the example of stocks, investing in just personal finance and stuff is just a really good example for this, were saved up, we're talking about, you know, the latest trades or whatever they're doing, or their projections that they think for whatever company and you just kind of bone below her house dunks or something, or just make some weird comment on the side, you know, those kind of comments sent out some kind of truth to it, or something. From that it can just kind of spark our own, you know, about x, y, Zed or whatever way they try to involve you into the conversation, then at that point, that's like the learning opportunity for you. So making those off comments, kind of just sarcastic rumors, or just trying to like show for like, Yeah, I know this about this, but I don't know anything else. That's a good kind of learning opportunity to so sometimes I can't think of a time where I have done that personally. But I've noticed it with some people. My brother recently I'm actually kind of getting get him into investing. So sometimes we just make some off comment. And I'll just kind of kind of just actually go off on one leg on on him about that particular concept that he just kind of making fun of, or maybe he just made a side comment where it was like, oh, man, like the stocks are like so volatile or something or he's Oh, you're made better money. Like he was like, Oh, yamas like mad, good investor or something. From the I would just start going off and just trying to explain the actual fundamentals of investing. And what it means is just like, you know, everyone's a genius in a bull market and stuff. So I guess it depends how passionate that person is on that topic about teaching it.
Daniel Redfearn 39:49
Subaan Qasim 39:50
Yeah. Otherwise, you can just make a comment like that and just kind of get nothing in return,
Daniel Redfearn 39:53
but you can, you can just gauge that from the other person. It's a very fair point though. Like I'm we're saying that I want to have the privilege of learning from you for the next 20 minutes about a certain topic. What if you don't want to talk about that right now, of course, that's my responsibility to notice that and accept that. And I think that, oftentimes that doesn't turn into a problem. And you should be able to notice really, so that's fine. I've written while you're talking, I very rudely was typing. So I didn't forget what I was thinking. Okay, so the first thing is, there's a another dynamic that we haven't discussed yet, which is where you actually know more than the other person, but you have to, but Okay, well, you can no more than the other person and still be the learner as well. That's an important detail. Yes. Because oftentimes, I keep saying, oftentimes, but often when you know, a lot about a certain topic. Yeah, learning from someone, either younger or so not quite as knowledgeable as you and it can help you see in a different way. That's a very common thing, I think. Yeah, that's,
Subaan Qasim 40:56
that's huge. That's why, you know, you have to teach to learn. I mean, I think probably see with teachers like in schools and stuff, the biggest kind of big brain moments they've had, or something is probably when a student asked a question about something that they just haven't thought about before, or it's just never been, you know, it's just never come to mind or a particular connection, like, Oh, so does this mean, does x then mean? Why? Maybe they just never thought about, it's never been taught to them. And they're like, you know, if they reason from first principles, then yes, x does mean y Yeah. And I get that a lot when I'm teaching something, especially when it comes to nutrition, and metabolism and stuff like that, I'm going to try to explain it because, you know, you can go down an infinite number of rabbit holes. But I don't really know too much about certain rabbit holes. But a lot of the time, I still try, I'm still trying to explain as the teacher almost, but I do let them know that I'm kind of out of my depth, and I'm just kind of reasoning from what I do know. But I love being in that position, because I ended up learning so much, just by talking or trying to teach, and then I'll go back, if I'm did make, like a kind of profound, you know, comment that I thought that was such an interesting thought, I'll go up and do some research and you know, usually has been, you know, start somewhere. And then on notice, I Oh, okay, I was kind of going along the right path, or maybe I was slightly off. And then you know, that's the kind of learning that so organic, and you just won't forget that kind of stuff. And you just don't really get that in any other way apart from actually trying to teach it. So if you aren't that teachers position, I guess you should always have that kind of notion in mind that this is a really good learning opportunity, even if they are, you know, really low, like they're like primary school level in terms of their conceptual knowledge and your like PhD level. So we're huge around. Oh, have you seen those, um, was like wired on YouTube, where say,
Daniel Redfearn 42:54
Subaan Qasim 42:55
find those really interesting, because you can kind of see them go through. I mean, so some of them are commonly were a bit rubbish. But
Daniel Redfearn 43:01
just to clarify what they are, is there's this channel on YouTube, where they'll get an expert in a certain topic, and they'll get that expert to explain that concept. Five different levels. Yeah, right. So like an elementary school, like a primary school student, set, like a college student, or whatever degree but an expert. I don't know the exact levels. But
Subaan Qasim 43:20
yeah, and oftentimes, I found the conversation with the with the biggest difference with a child and stuff, you know, trying to explain, you know, quantum computing to a child, like, how do you even do that? And the child so curious, or just has no idea that they're just going to ask something random or go on to say something random, potentially. And you're Oh, you know, in principle is like, they were saying something, say, as a joke, but I Oh, this might actually have some foundation to it.
Daniel Redfearn 43:45
So that's a very, I think, the topic we're talking about right now, that's quite an established concept, right? The idea that for you to truly understand something you shouldn't be able to teach it. But the other thing that I would add to that is for you to teach for you to be able to teach something, well, you need to be passionate about it. And often, if you know a lot about a topic, if you become an expert on a topic, you'll get to that point by teaching a lot and stuff as well, right? Like I'm in Madison house, a constant cycle of learning, teaching, learning, teaching, like a spiral all the way up. And it never stops. Rarely does it? So it kind of alludes on to the other point that I'd written down very rudely earlier, which was, how everything is useful to know. Because that's another thing I hear sometimes it's like, why don't you want to learn about that? Well, I don't need to know about it. Yeah, it doesn't interest me at all. Not even that it doesn't interest me, but it's not relevant to my life.
Yeah, I don't
Daniel Redfearn 44:42
know. I think everything is relevant if you make it relevant, right. So say, Okay, I'm not Muslim myself, but learning more about Islam. I could get away with not knowing anything about Islam, I think especially living in the UK. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I'm not living in a Muslim country. Yeah, it's fine, but You can gain a lot, a huge amount of learning about these things you don't know anything about. So yeah, I, I personally think you should always never have the attitude of Oh, I don't need to know about this. That's like a fundamental rule. If we were to make this into like a little blog, that'll be one of the maybe Rule number two or something,
Subaan Qasim 45:17
probably rule number one, to be fair. Yeah, I'd say it's up there. Because a lot of the time, I get that a lot where sometimes like, man, I don't want to learn this, it's just useless. Or I don't want to go to this level of detail. Or, you know, there's a whole hyper specialization thing where I'd rather learn slightly more Brett than goes so far down a particular thing. But yeah, like, so. I don't really know much about languages, I don't actively learn about languages apart from when I talk with you. And talk more about, you know, the influence of languages and stuff, rather than actually learning a language. I mean, always say about geopolitics, and maps in the size of countries, but an initial No Man's just some more use use this information. But at the end of all, this Yeah, by the end of it, I pretty much always come up with new some new kind of mental model for something or a new appreciation for something that, okay, I might not apply directly, what's what the exact, you know, square footage of Russia is, but I'm just being able to say interpret, like, the, like, being able to understand the scale of certain things. Yes. You know, I think that's one thing that humans in general, just naturally are quite terrible are, you know, trying to comprehend large numbers, or scales of things like you've seen those animations, where they're going through all the scales of the universe from a subatomic particle to the entire universe. You just can't comprehend it is like the the cry put in like one star next to our son and our son is a singular pixel, like, okay, yeah, you're trying to imagine that, but actually, understanding that get your head around. It is unbelievable. I was. My dad got an email from Virgin Media the other day, saying how much internet like you've used? And my dad has this habit, just read the biggest thing in the headline. I don't know if it's just because you can't alongside so yeah, the biggest thing, I'll read that, but yeah, basically, he saw that, you know, he basically saw the big number. It was like something like 100,000. It was like, like, 300,000 Pizza bites. And he was just like, what's a pizza bites Oban. And I was like, you know, times 10 to the 12, or 10, to the 15. I think 10 to the six gigabytes. So what can they just basically mean, my dad worked out? And he was like, yeah, that's how much we downloaded in the month. Yeah. Is to the 15. Okay, yeah, yes. It's a 15 by the brain. So yeah, my dad was a virgin just said, that's how much we downloaded in the past year. And I was like, do you understand how much that how much data that is? There is no way we did that? In the past year, and yeah, and then in the end, like, Just show me the email and they said, the entirety of the UK in the past year. Okay, that makes sense. Because even just going up by 1000 fold is a huge amount when you're big numbers, because it's kind of exponential that people do not understand exponential numbers properly. I don't either like or, you know, I, I'd like to think I do but when I try and comprehend it sometimes. Okay, this is just exponential stuff. Actually. If you're gone corridor digital or corridor crew on YouTube, Ren who's a VFX. Artist he does, you know, VFX artists explains exponential numbers or something. It's a really good visualization of the needles like water filling up the Grand Canyon and how fast it would fill and stuff.
Daniel Redfearn 48:54
Those videos leave me feeling very uncomfortable afterwards.
Subaan Qasim 48:58
Yeah, yeah. It's like the Kursk is art videos, where it's like, you get that weird feeling of existential dread. But, yeah, I
Daniel Redfearn 49:06
can't remember what the original point I was making. We were saying that basically, when, when you're teaching,
Subaan Qasim 49:14
we have to cut this but that was a big one. How did I go talking about my dad?
Daniel Redfearn 49:18
Oh, yeah, we're talking about maps, geography maps. So yeah, just
Subaan Qasim 49:24
appreciating something like that. And then yeah, I read that email and it kind of Yeah, he didn't read the you know, disclaimer at the top and isn't for the whole UK and then it said our one underneath which was in the terabytes, but still
Daniel Redfearn 49:35
so like knowing how big like I can't there are certain countries, which are a few million, a handful of countries are over a million square kilometers in size, and knowing how big those countries are relative to the smaller countries, like um, a lot of smaller countries in Europe and stuff, which are around 30,000 kilometers.
Subaan Qasim 49:52
Yeah, so this comes back to Okay, I've got a point. Finally, the point I was making is that seemingly seemingly arbitrary just useless information. But it just helped me kind of appreciate numbers and scale of things. So now when I'm trying to appreciate the scale of certain things, or just interpreting statistics, we're getting a lot of that in 2020. and stuff. So I'm just more informed about how big is this actually are, when I'm going out to something and trying to figure out, you know, how many computational processes this thing is doing in a second, then I'll just have a bit of scale of numbers, because now I'm applying it from a different context. Now I'm looking at land area,
Daniel Redfearn 50:27
rather than just pure numbers. And let me draw it back to the point of being useless knowledge. Even even in a sense that it's not just, it's not just that it helps give you scale and things like that. But also, often things can be useful because they help us see life in a different way. That's a really vague thing to say. But a good example for me is being in London, so privileged to have so much diversity, right? And that you can meet people from countries that you've never even heard of before. Right? Obviously, there are hundreds of countries, you know, like around 200, ish, depends a bit on
Subaan Qasim 51:09
Daniel Redfearn 51:10
And then it's even more interesting, when you look at nations inside of countries. That is where it gets so fascinating, because a lot of countries, in a lot of countries, there are three or four nations within that country. And that's like, Wait, how do you define a nation?
Subaan Qasim 51:22
Daniel Redfearn 51:23
a good starting point, for example, might be like Spain, really interesting to look into the different divisions within Spain, the different languages they speak, the different ethnic groups in Spain, what brought those ethnic groups about, everything ties into it all ties in to one like, overall topic. I don't know how to describe that topic yet. Like, maybe a title for like, culture, you know, like something like that? Because what do you how do you tie in languages, history, geography, politics, linguistics, slightly different. They all kind of in the same thing, they're contributing to the same thing. So do you see what I'm saying here? I haven't described this bit too well, but is that we think that something might be useless. But it helps just build a little bit of context. And, yeah, I don't know, it's a massive example that I can think of where you're meeting someone who's from a certain part of the world, it's really nice to just know what that country even looks like, or have a good idea of the scale of that country, a little bit about the history of that country, it just, it helps you connect with that person in a slightly different way. And I think it's nice for someone else, to be able to see that there's been disowned, who knows a bit about what what they're talking about that makes sense or knows a bit about where they're from.
Subaan Qasim 52:36
Yeah, and a lot of that can be a lot more unconscious, subconscious than you would think. Like, say, if I'm just talking to you about languages and culture of Spain and stuff for ages, I might not really taking much actively, like as an old taking that information and kind of appreciate it, but I wouldn't really know what to do with it until say maybe, you know, I go to holiday, go on holiday to Spain. And I'll just kind of maybe get flashbacks to that conversation, or Oh, this actually kind of interesting. Yeah. Whereas if I never had that, I just kind of batted it away and realize uses and didn't even engage in the conversation. I've never really had that appreciation. And when it comes to actually learning things, the best time to do it is the biggest kind of connections and stuff and biggest discoveries that are made, are made with seemingly unrelated connections. It, our brain takes in so many data points in so many pieces of information that we can't put it all together ourselves. That's what we need to sleep for. Yeah, I know, arrangers kind of puts it together. But the thing is, is that if you allow yourself to maybe get exposed, and kind of engaged with this seemingly useless information, it might spark a connection in a field that you're deeply, deeply interested or motivated in. It was kind of what we were talking about a couple of episodes where I was saying with Anki, one of the things I love about studying with Anki is that I will just get completely random on related topics within the field of medicine. I guess nothing within the field of medicine is unrelated. But you know something about the toe compared to something about the brain, right? So that might be seemingly unrelated. But because those cards will just come up next to each other. I might on text, yeah, I'll just get some weird connection and be like, oh, I've just because you haven't seen the two pieces of information together, you just haven't made the link, they just the proximity hasn't been close enough, if you kind of consider it that these two data points are in a network in your brain. And then when they come in close together, there's a line thickening in between them, the closer they get, then it'll be thick enough and as didn't pass the threshold, up. And it's like connected. Whereas if they're kind of spread apart in different parts of your different parts of your brain, but they're just not related to each other. They aren't seen next to each other. You just want to make that connection and make that you know next step or improvement in your understanding about something that you might be really interested in.
Daniel Redfearn 54:51
So yeah, that's maybe a nice final point is that learning about something you don't know anything about can actually help you better understand things that you know a lot about. So, because obviously, everything is connected. So yeah, anything you learn helps you just put more of life into context. So yeah, that that's maybe I'm aware that we don't want to drag this on for too long. Yeah. But just to bring it back to sort of the original concept of the episode, and that how to talk about a topic that you know nothing about with someone. So don't be afraid to show that you don't know anything about it. Be comfortable, be genuinely comfortable and look forward to that opportunity is something that is actually really enjoyable.
Subaan Qasim 55:30
So yeah, I think there has to be developed the first it can be very uncomfortable. And I guess it always is kind of uncomfortable, because you know, you're being vulnerable, you're kind of being exposed. So it's a mental shift you have to make, but yeah, I guess you just kind of have to put yourself in there. And just, every time you're like, oh, man, this is kind of awkward, I just have no idea what they're talking about. Just think to yourself, okay, it's fine to be in this situation. And kind of developer,
Daniel Redfearn 55:53
this gets on to sort of the realms of virtue signaling. So we have to be careful. But talking a lot of times in life, you can, people will subconsciously look down on someone else. And we all do at times, we have to admit it. But what I advocate this mentality, partly because it helps you not to look down on people in a way because you can learn from anyone, right? anyone in the world you can learn from Yeah, even if it's as simple as someone who is from a different country to you. Okay. And, okay, straightaway, instantly, you can learn a lot from that person, a huge amount, just ask them questions about that country, unless you're a world leading expert on that country, you will learn a lot from that conversation. So yeah, I think a lot of the time, our own ignorance, or our own pride or ego gets in the way from put is put in the way, I can't think of the right wording, but it's fine gets in the way of us learning a lot from someone. So you know, the fact that we want to establish ourselves as the knowledgeable person or as the person above that person, we end up missing out a lot of opportunities to learn. So, yeah, that the reason why I said it's a bit like Virtus in is it's like me preaching saying that, oh, you should never judge someone and stuff that everyone knows. But really try and apply it to your daily life. And, and every conversation you have think, what can I learn from this person, and it often makes another person feel quite nice, you know, showing an interest in showing an interest in where they come from, or something that they're good at asking questions about it, they will appreciate that, you know, and it's kind of saying to them, like, hey, like, I don't think I'm better than you, you know, you can help me here. Like, I want to learn something from you. So yeah, basically. That's what I really want to say on that initial point, be comfortable, be willing to do that, be willing to be in that position with everyone, you don't just have to be talking to a university professor to learn a lot from you can do with anyone, all information is all information is worth learning. So yeah, whatever, whatever that topic is, even if it's something you really don't think applies to you still be willing to learn about it. And also, make sure that you're not having conversation that that person really doesn't want to have. But yeah, no one wants to be that guy. Yeah. Do you have anything you want to add on top of that?
Subaan Qasim 58:17
No, I think that point of He said, No, but I'm always gonna add a point on that point of ego and say virtue signaling and stuff and pride. I think that's an important point. I think that's where all the uncomfortable nature comes from, because you're essentially just being put down in a place lower right? In. I guess, that's the traditional view where, you know, teachers are above students in terms of authority and everything. Yeah. But, you know, you just have to realize that, you know, conversation is not like that. And in a school and in, in a classroom, it shouldn't be like that, either. But, you know, to a certain extent, but, yeah, I think that's the whole thing that I was trying to say, where, in your mind, when you're when you're in that situation, like mine's kind of uncomfortable, it's because of that maybe disparity between your ego and how much you want to say that you know, and stuff. So just kind of admitting to yourself internally being like, this is fine. I'll just admit out loud that I don't really know much. And I'm just open to learning that we'll be fine with it. And you know, they'll actually probably tailor the conversation or tailor the information in a way that will be more beneficial for you, and you'll gain more out of it. And because you've made that disclaimer, you have no pressure or you there are no expectations upon you.
Daniel Redfearn 59:29
Absolutely. I think you summarized it very nicely. Subaan I don't want to beat the dead horse. So I've got nothing else to add in that respect. Yeah, but thank you very much for joining me on that thought train. went from a shower thought into a full blown episode. Yeah. And now that commuter who was listening halfway in
Subaan Qasim 59:47
there on the commute back Whoa, yeah.
Daniel Redfearn 59:50
No, let's be honest, they stopped listening. Anyway, yeah, it was a good one. So yeah, I guess we'll leave it there. Alright. Peace. Peace.
Subaan Qasim 1:00:00
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